Dr. Morgentaler's Order of Canada

We are being encouraged to write to the Governor-General to oppose this Order of Canada award (if, in fact, you ARE opposed!?)...which I did...

July 4, 2008

Her Excellency the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean
Governor General of Canada
Rideau Hall
1 Sussex Drive
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A1

Her Excellency Michaelle Jean:

I am a Canadian. You make decisions on behalf of Canadians. I want to clearly state that your decision to honour Dr. Morgentaler with an Order of Canada award does not reflect or represent my family’s ethics and morals nor does your decision necessarily represent the ethics and morals of the general population of Canada. I believe a major and destructive mistake has been made with this decision.

Abortion is a form of extermination. Dr. Morgentaler devised a method of extermination for that minority who desire access to fetal extermination.

I realize that there may be rare circumstances where abortion is valid and necessary. But to honour a man who has spent his life performing thousands of unnecessary human exterminations, often based solely on selfishness and convenience, is no less sickening and offensive than posthumously honouring Adolf Hitler for devising effective forms of extermination of the Jewish people!

Or to honour an inventor who devises a more “humane” form of torture or more benign means of capital punishment. Abortion is an activity whose sole purpose is death and dismemberment. How can “a dealer in death” be CELEBRATED?

An Order of Canada medal should honour those citizens who are undeniably and unequivocably worthy of acknowledgement and for whose achievements there exists no controversy in terms of morals or ethics.

Your decision to honour Dr.Morgentaler shows disrespect for the citizens of Canada and disregards their heartfelt integrity by going forward with this questionable presentation when so many Canadians are opposed.

Our country is full of people who are far more worthy of recognition because they champion and defend LIFE in all of its variety..those who work with the elderly and the disabled and those who sacrifice their lives for children in need, the suffering and the less-fortunate. There are those who carry out endless research to prolong and sustain life.

So instead, you choose to laud and give praise to one who works on “the dark and destructive side” to snuff out that tiny spark of life which struggles so desperately to survive within a mother’s womb.

I, for one, would have expected you to speak out on behalf of the most innocent and most vulnerable...Canada’s unborn children. You have seen the suffering of children in Haiti and you have a daughter of your own. How can you possibly shake the bloody hand of an abortionist at this award ceremony and celebrate his lethal accomplishments??

My opinion of you has been drastically altered and I abhor the decision you have made in honouring Dr. Morgentaler.

From my heart,

Thank you for posting CKing. There are also two petitions that I am aware of and have signed:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Morgentaler?e.

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/fcp80702/petition-sign.html?

I said 20 years ago that this man was not a proponent of women's rights, but an entrepreneur who exploits women at a most vulnerable time in their life. It is a very sad time in our history when we honour a man who has contributed to the death and division of a nation. I am ashamed of my Canada.

How can Henry Morgantaler be in the same ranks as previous Order of Canada Recipient Jean Vanier?

There are about 75 awards being given...Peter Mansbridge for one I recognize, Marc Kielburger, brother of Craig who started the whole Free the Children agenda when he was just 12 years old. MANY others on this website:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive
/2008/07/02/order.aspx
(Hook it all together to access it...don't leave the gap.)

Jeanne-d'Arc Bouchard, C.M., C.Q., Roberval, Quebec, Member of the Order of Canada For her innovative contributions as a nurse, advocate and creator of a public assistance program designed to provide care and readjustment services for people suffering from alcoholism and drug addiction. (Now THAT'S more like it! What if SHE had devised a scheme to get RID of people suffering from alcoholism and drug addiction? Would that fit the list??)

Prime Minister Harper was commenting on the murder of those four Mounties at the dedication of the bronze statues in their memory. He used these words (in referring to their untimely deaths) : "an insult to all that is good." I feel the same way about this Order of Canada to Morgentaler. It's an INSULT to Canada.

Canada is about freedom of choice. That is what abortion is .. isn't it? On that note ... there is a time for this procedure for sure.

I have a problem with some high & mighty telling a woman who was raped that she has to have that child. She wasn't asked to be raped or molested and certainly didn't ask to be impregnated. It is emotionally & mentally wrong to ask a woman in this situation to act like nothing happened and that she should deliver this child, care for it, love it and raise it as if it was conceived out of love. There will always be that reminder of how this child became to be .. and it would be devastating for the mother and child relationship.

If you anti-abortionist believe that any woman could do this you are way off the mark.

To me this is one situation where the child would not have any say at all (unlike you people who squawked about children's rights and smoking in cars)

I agree with Dr. Morgantaler receiving the award. Some in the 'general population' may not agree with abortion...that is your right and your choice....but it is not your right to impose your beliefs on others....to say as a blanket statement that abortions should not be done does a disservice to those who have made and will make this choice in the future. Because someone is 'pro-choice', does not mean they are 'pro-abortion'....I don't think that any woman getting an abortion would take it lightly. It is what it is...no one is denying that an abortion ends a life....but many people beleive that the woman has a choice to make for her life and her future...for some,and for multiple reasons this is the only viable choice.
It burns a$$ when so-called christians impose their ideas and beliefs on others and then use their religious beliefs as the reason for doing so. Are christians not supposed to be non-judgemental and accepting of others....in my experience, most are just hypocrites.
Back to Dr. Morgantaler....he performed a service for many woman that otherwise would have been forced to look elsewhere...perhaps travel to another country....would that make it better for you as long as its 'not in your backyard'? I don't beleive he did this type of procedure for his own gain or benefit....to take on the media, religious fanatics etc...as he did for years, he must feel like he has a true calling to help women in this way. Good for him and good for Canada for recognizing him for his life's work.

pattip: I did not bring up the religious angle because I don't believe it is a religious issue. I think it is a "human" issue. Any of us posting on this messageboard could have been aborted. Right? And lost our rights to live.

And yes, he gave women freedom of choice...but in giving women freedom, he took away the freedom of the child to breathe and live. However, I am not simplistic enough to think there are not times when an abortion is necessary.

And Dr. Morgentaler was not a "not-for-profit" clinic. This was his business.

Anyway, old conflict, old battleground....ongoing conflict.....two-sided argument..maybe three-sided or more. As it is with emotional issues.

Good thing we live in a democracy. Good to see that you have supported the other "leg of the table" in case it starts to tip over! Good to have balance.

And that too, is part of the issue I take with this award. This man is too controversial and there are too many pros and cons to make it an award that represents "the view" of "most" Canadians.

But then again, who asked us??? Maybe some people don't like Peter Mansbridge! Or the music of Randy Bachman. Or former Prime Minister Kim Campbell??

Seems there's a committee of only NINE people who choose the recipients of the 75 Order of Canada awards. So a very small panel of judges, one might say.
However, some have already rejected their medals in protest of Dr. Morgentaler receiving one. Now THERE'S a real sacrifice!

farmersdaughter wrote:

Canada is about freedom of choice.

Canada is far from a place with freedom of choice, imo

Hell I cant even watch what kind of tv i wanna watch without being a criminal

cking wrote:

However, some have already rejected their medals in protest of Dr. Morgentaler receiving one. Now THERE'S a real sacrifice!

Are you talking about Father Lucien Larre of B.C.? Seems he's not without controversy himself, having been convicted of two accounts of physically abusing children under his care . . . http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=a8d5e1d0-2e70-4dad-9099-c4c3374d68c8

Inanimate Carbon Rod wrote:

cking wrote:

However, some have already rejected their medals in protest of Dr. Morgentaler receiving one. Now THERE'S a real sacrifice!

Are you talking about Father Lucien Larre of B.C.? Seems he's not without controversy himself, having been convicted of two accounts of physically abusing children under his care . . . http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=a8d5e1d0-2e70-4dad-9099-c4c3374d68c8

You will notice that he was acquitted and pardoned. This is a man that helped many street teens get back on track. When in that arena you expose yourself to the possibility of false accusations by less than happy teens. IMO
You're right CKing for me this is not a "religious" issue. I learned in grade 10 biology class that when the sperm meets the egg "life begins". To me it is black and white science. I also feel passionate about this issue as I was the baby of a crisis pregnancy 46 years ago. My mother was 16 and unmarried at the time. She was advised by a well meaning relative that she could arrange so that she could "get rid of it". That never entered my mother's mind (thankfully).

Re. Father Larre: "The National Parole Board of Canada pardoned him five years later and erased the charges." But there still exists some questionable stuff going on. No, I was not speaking of him specifically. I heard of others considering this option.

At any rate, perhaps this committee of 9 people are not doing their research properly then...are they? Why, for example, would Kim Campbell get an Order of Canada designation?

CKing....why were you replying to pattip? I think your reply was meant for me (?).

Do you really think that the fact that Dr.Morgantaler was paid for his work is a bad thing? Do you know of any doctor who works for free? Seriously, why should they? Would it change your view of him if he provided his services free of charge? The fact that a person gets paid for their work does not necessarily take away from the fact that they may do this work as a 'calling' or to provide a much needed service?

I think people are taking this argument in all sorts of directions....directions that have llittle or nothing to do with Dr. Morgantaler recieving the Order of Canada. Of course you would be thankful if you knew that your mother was advised to abort you but didn't.....obviously this person was able to make a difference choice and have the child. That's great. Its not necessarily the best choice for everyone.

As for the priest who has turned down his medal in protest being a REAL sacrifice....as opposed to what? I'm not sure I follow the point of that statement?

And Scully, exacly what type of tv are you not able to watch? I find that the most intriguing point made in this thread so far

cking wrote:

Re. Father Larre: "The National Parole Board of Canada pardoned him five years later and erased the charges." But there still exists some questionable stuff going on. No, I was not speaking of him specifically. I heard of others considering this option.

At any rate, perhaps this committee of 9 people are not doing their research properly then...are they? Why, for example, would Kim Campbell get an Order of Canada designation?

And so Dr Morgentaler has also spent time in jail

btw, does Conrad Black still have his Order of Canada?

As for Kim Campbell, she took the fall for the Mulroney government during their final gasp. Perhaps, that is merit unto itself . . .

berkley: Your avatars look similar. Did not read the name...was thinkin' pattip.

"turned down his medal in protest being a REAL sacrifice"...well, anyone who receives an accolade for an achievement, yet turns it down and walks away from it because it goes against his/her conscience...well, that would be hard.
A conscientious objector. Always a tough call. It would be a difficult decision to make.

However, if you felt strongly enough as to the integrity of the award and the company you keep on the podium, then one would probably do so...and put their own desire for acknowledgement on a back burner. As in "walk the walk"..not just "talk the talk."

And no, I don't expect a doctor to be non-profit...but, this was a lucrative business, afterall. So he gets no points in my book for his sacrifice for, and "service" to, women. He was simply doing his job. Filling a perceived need. Like removing warts or doing a face lift. However, in my mind, it's not the same at all. Disagreement though is what fuels this messageboard.

Order of Canada for Morgentaler tells us a lot about our country

Barbara Yaffe
Vancouver Sun


Friday, July 04, 2008


An announcement this week that Henry Morgentaler has been named to the Order of Canada has significance that goes well beyond the man.

It speaks to the nature of Canada, to this nation's tolerance of individuals and ideas that reach out to the nether regions of our traditional comfort zone.

This is a good thing. This is why Canada is much admired around the world.

The appointment was nothing if not bold. It has been dubbed by observers as the most controversial one ever made by an Order of Canada advisory council.

Indeed, it has sent federal politicians scrambling for the exits. Conservatives promptly distributed "talking points" to their MPs, emphasizing that those who decide Order of Canada appointees sit at arm's length from the government.

The Harperites understand their political base and in no way would wish to be associated with this little tempest.

It's true, the government has no formal input into the selection process, but Prime Minister Stephen Harper most certainly would have been kept in the loop about the appointment.

Some background: The 41-year-old Order of Canada is Canada's top honour, recognizing lifetime achievement directed toward making a difference. The motto desiderantes meliorem patriam means "they desire a better country." Anyone can nominate a candidate. Picks are made by an nine-member advisory council to the Governor General.

The advisory council is chaired Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin of the Supreme Court of Canada and includes two government types -- Privy Council clerk Kevin Lynch and Canadian Heritage deputy minister Judith LaRocque. Both are believed to have opposed the Mortgentaler appointment.

Among others on the council are renowned geneticist Dr. Patricia Baird, best known for chairing a federal royal commission on reproductive technology, and one-time National Ballet star Karen Kain.

Abortion opponents argue Mortgentaler's inclusion debases the order. They assert he was selected by left-leaners held over from the Liberal era of government.

While it's possible that some sitting council members have a liberal bent, it's wrong to claim that the naming of Morgentaler debases the order. It does the opposite.

The Polish Holocaust survivor, now 85, fought most of his life to enable women to have unfettered access to safe abortions.

The alternative was never an absence of abortions; the record shows that frantic women turn to back alley-style abortions and coat hangers.



http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=1ebb54b2-afe5-4baa-8647-a395962f721a

A very good article! That article could almost bend my thinking...the logical part of my thinking...but not the emotional and ideological parts.

Consider: "the country's willingness to stretch the ideological bounds of what it will accommodate."

As a traditional person, I am just afraid how far this will inevitably stretch..and how wide our door will open bit by bit...and like the frog in the slowly warming pot, how we will not even be aware of the stretching of our "ideological bounds."

Suddenly...surprise! A new ideology has moved in and taken over and we didn't even see it coming. (I could almost mention the Chinese influence on our industrial and agricultural economy...but won't. I could almost mention the easy termination of life in China but I won't.)

There are abortions done in most every hospital so why are you getting your panties in a twist over just Morgantaler? Hospital that do this service are more safe with security guards everywhere. At least when a girl leaves the hospital no one knows what she was doing there and you don't get harassed by a**holes who think they know what is best for the girl.

Why not go after the hospitals also and "get rid of the funding"

btw ... if my daughter came to me as a teenager and told me she was pregnant and wanted an abortion you can bet your bottom dollar I would move heaven and earth to help her get it thats for sure!

farmersdaughter wrote:

There are abortions done in most every hospital so why are you getting your panties in a twist over just Morgantaler? Hospital that do this service are more safe with security guards everywhere. At least when a girl leaves the hospital no one knows what she was doing there and you don't get harassed by a**holes who think they know what is best for the girl.

Why not go after the hospitals also and "get rid of the funding"

btw ... if my daughter came to me as a teenager and told me she was pregnant and wanted an abortion you can bet your bottom dollar I would move heaven and earth to help her get it thats for sure!

Well unless this new surgeon Al Aqueel does abortions there are no more being performed at NGH since Dr. Fisher retired. The other surgeons will not perform them for religious reasons. There are some doctors left that have taken their Hippocratic Oath seriously.

I pray that your daughter is never in that situation where abortion is a choice she may make. It isn't as cut and dry as a simple day surgery. The physical, mental and emotional after affects can become a life long issue and debilitating for many years to come. You may have to move more than heaven and earth to get her the help she needs.
Morgentaler doesn't address that does he?

I doubt very much that NGH does this procedure as I am sure all you fanatics would be there with your torches screaming for somebody's head on a platter!

as for my daughter, I hope that she isn't put into this predicament ... but I will protect her from the many zealots that would be there accusing her of murder thats for sure.

The old saying .. "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." How many of you anti abortionists truly know what your daughters, nieces, granddaughters have gone thru. It wouldn't surprise me the least bit with your attitudes that they could have had this procedure and you are none the wiser.

Well said farmersdaughter...what really bothers me is when these anti-abortionists are out protesting and there are children holding signs! One year I drove by Wendy's and they were out protesting and I seen a 10 year old boy holding a sign saying "abortion kills lives" or something like that. It took everything I had not to turn around and give them a piece of my mind. Good thing my husband was driving. Abortion is a personal decision to make. I don't believe in using it a birth control but every women should not be judged if she has one. Like farmersdaughter said " How many of you anti abortionists truly know what your daughters, nieces, granddaughters have gone thru" So I think anti-abortionist should shut up before they know the whole story. As for Dr. Morgentaler he was providing a service (not a great service), just like tobacco farmers, payday loan companies etc. He was making a living and it if was not for him how many rape victims or adoptive parents would be stuck raising a child that was a product of rape. Do you ever think of that you anti-abortion people??? Or how about a young mother who can't raise a child because she is 12?? I know there is always adoption but what about the rape victim she will have to carry this child for 9 months and be reminded every day what happen to her.

The rape of a 12 year old would certainly be an exception. No one would argue that! There are tragedies in life. However, I doubt that the majority of Morgentaler's clients were 12 year old rape victims.

And NGH doesn't perform abortions, not because of "screaming fanatics" but because the doctors are morally opposed. In other words, due to their religious convictions, they are "anti-abortionists."

Rape & Incest Victims Call for Congressional Hearings on Abortion
Say women who become pregnant from sexual assault don't want or need abortions
SPRINGFIELD, IL, June 24, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A group of women who have experienced pregnancies resulting from rape or incest are petitioning Congress and state legislatures to hear their stories, saying women who become pregnant from sexual assault don't want or need abortions. The petition comes on the heels of a Defense Department appropriations amendment by Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) that would authorize federal funding of abortions for military personnel who become pregnant from sexual assault.

The petition from the Ad Hoc Committee of Women Pregnant by Sexual Assault (WPSA) asks federal and state legislators to "hold public hearings at which we and other women who have become pregnant through sexual assault will be invited to discuss our unique needs and concerns."

WPSA was formed after the publication of "Victims and Victors: Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions and Children Resulting from Sexual Assault," a book of personal testimonies collected from women who have experienced a sexual assault pregnancy. The group says that pregnant sexual assault victims have been either ignored or misrepresented by politicians and the media because of the polarizing effects of the national abortion debate.

"In most cases, it is only in the context of highly divisive debates over abortion that we are discussed," the petition reads. "In virtually every case, the people who claim to be defending our interests have never taken the time to actually listen to us to learn about our true circumstances, needs, and concerns."

Kathleen DeZeeuw, who became pregnant after being raped as a teen and gave birth to a son, Patrick, wrote in Victims and Victors that she feels "personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side of the story."

WPSA members say that because women who have actually been pregnant following sexual assault have never been given a forum to describe their real experiences, public policies fail to offer pregnant sexual assault victims the care and support they need. Instead, public funding for abortions following rape or incest may give women, their family members, and health care providers the false impression that abortion is proven to be helpful in these circumstances.

Nearly 200 women submitted letters or testimonies for Victims and Victors, making it the largest sample of information ever collected from women who have experienced a sexual assault pregnancy. In an analysis of the submissions included in the book, 88 percent of those who had abortions said they regretted their abortions and that abortion only compounded the trauma of the sexual assault Only one woman reported no regrets, while the remainder of the women either made no statements regarding their abortions or were uncertain if their lives would have been better or worse than if they had not had abortions. By contrast, none of the women who carried to term said they subsequently regretted their decisions to give birth.

Before you attack me, I'm not saying this is my opinion but we have to be careful when we speak for people. We haven't experienced what these women have so we can't pretend to have the answer.

SkullyCapone wrote:

farmersdaughter wrote:

Canada is about freedom of choice.

Canada is far from a place with freedom of choice, imo

Hell I cant even watch what kind of tv i wanna watch without being a criminal

what an odd statement....what kind of tv do you want to watch?

rudievalentine: Along the same lines....from the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, 2000, an Ontario study of 41, 039 post abortive women during the 3 month period following their abortions revealed these women had a more than 4X higher rate of hospitalization for infection,
a 5X higher rate of "surgical events."
and a 5X higher rate of hospitalization for psychiatric problems
than a matching group of women who had not had abortions.

These very real repercussions cannot be denied.

cking wrote:

The rape of a 12 year old would certainly be an exception. No one would argue that! There are tragedies in life. However, I doubt that the majority of Morgentaler's clients were 12 year old rape victims.

And NGH doesn't perform abortions, not because of "screaming fanatics" but because the doctors are morally opposed. In other words, due to their religious convictions, they are "anti-abortionists."

Morals and religion aren't neccessarily the same thing. Also it may be due to the fact you need to specialize in that sort of thing and NGH just doesn't have the doctors that are.