The Beer Store....or The Grocery Store?

Where do you think we should be able to buy beer? Just at The Beer Store or LCBO? Are we mature enough to buy our beer at the corner variety store or the grocery store? Would that drastic change turn us into a nation of ....?


Ontarians thirsty for answers
We've been buying at The Beer Store and the LCBO for so long, it seems natural. But there are alternatives

Jul 07, 2008 04:30 AM
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Dana Flavelle
Business Reporter

Is there a better way to sell beer?

That's a question that some corner stores, small brewers and bar owners have asked repeatedly over the years.

Each time, the provincial government, which is responsible for alcohol sales, has said no.

Citing concerns about public health and safety, governments of the day have repeatedly endorsed the current structure.

"It's much easier for us to maintain security through the (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) and The Beer Store than to give that power to thousands of convenience stores," Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said on April 3 last year in response to a private member's bill proposing the sale of beer and wine through corner stores.

When Progressive Conservative leader John Tory raised the idea during last fall's election campaign of testing corner store sales, McGuinty again backed the current structure.

"It's really tough if you are under age in Ontario to buy wine or beer or liquor through the LCBO or Beer Store," the premier said. "It's a good system."

On Friday, a spokesperson for Finance Minister Dwight Duncan

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/455326

I choose beer AND groceries! When I go to the states one of the things I love is the ability to go into any store and grab a few cold ones.

why not?

the last time I was in B.C. (about 15 years ago), a person could purchase all types of liquor and beer at the corner store. I believe that Quebec also does this.

you can buy your alcoholic beverages in your grocery or corner store in just about every jurisdiction except Ontario. Enough of this silly nanny-state - let's at least break this enormous monopoly that's held by the Big 3 beer companies in this province.

You can buy beer at the corner store in Ontario. Go to Turkey Point, go to Scotland. It is available in areas that have applied and are a distance from a Beer Store. You folks need to get out more.

pattip wrote:

You can buy beer at the corner store in Ontario. Go to Turkey Point, go to Scotland. It is available in areas that have applied and are a distance from a Beer Store. You folks need to get out more.

yes, and if you really want to "get out more", beer can be purchased at the general store in Temagami and just south of Lake Superior Provincial Park - Agawa.

However, (I assume) we are talking about being readily available in corner and grocery stores, just like in BC and Quebec . . .

The big question is can it be controlled like it is in the Beer Store?

Spidubic wrote:

The big question is can it be controlled like it is in the Beer Store?

I would imagine it could be controlled in the same way that cigarette sales are controlled.

or ask our neighbours how they control liquor sales in those environs

Other thing is delivery. Right now a beer truck pulls up to the Beer Store and unloads. One stop in Simcoe. Now picture him having to stop at every corner store. More time, more gas, more cost.

Spidubic wrote:

Other thing is delivery. Right now a beer truck pulls up to the Beer Store and unloads. One stop in Simcoe. Now picture him having to stop at every corner store. More time, more gas, more cost.

I imagine then that beer would be distributed the same way that cigarettes or any other grocery item is delivered - the store would receive them from whatever wholesale/distributor that they normally deal with for these items. Actually, this could probably prove to be cheaper for the Big 3 than the current delivery system, given that they could operate straight out of their plants or from a central depot

Spidubic wrote:

Other thing is delivery. Right now a beer truck pulls up to the Beer Store and unloads. One stop in Simcoe. Now picture him having to stop at every corner store. More time, more gas, more cost.

You have a very valid point Spidubic.

While I can't speak for the beer side of the equation, I do know that the LCBO is the largest single buyer of wines and spirits in the world. That means they get the best pricing available and first choice of everthing in the marketplace. That keeps costs down and profits up. Running a tight ship with limited outlets also keeps costs down which also means higher profits.

Last fiscal year (2006/2007) those profits poured $ 1,279,700,000.00 into the coffers of the provincial government. Please note - none of that is tax revenue. That is the DIVIDEND the corporation paid to it's only shareholder, Ontario. As long as this continues to be the case, government will keep wine & spirit sales closely controlled. And if they do it for wine then they have to do it for beer otherwise they would loose the philosopical arguement (keep booze out of the hands of minors).

It really is all about money.

I read the Toronto Star series and learned a lot. I always knew that the big guys owned it but a few items were enlightening.

- Efficiency of the system is impressive and the selection for customers under the current beer store is incredible.
- If this went to grocery stores etc., they would only sell the top sellers. Right now almost every soda pop for sale in a grocery store is either a Pepsi or Coke product and they even own all of the sub-lables like 7up, Barq's, Canada Dry etc.
- The major complaints customers have of the Beer stores is hours of operation and service when busy. Yet tourist areas all open sundays and extend hours in the summer. It would be nice to be able to get limited products from a local convenience store with their hours. (Maybe micro-breweries only?)

Batman wrote:

I read the Toronto Star series and learned a lot. I always knew that the big guys owned it but a few items were enlightening.

- Efficiency of the system is impressive and the selection for customers under the current beer store is incredible.
- If this went to grocery stores etc., they would only sell the top sellers. Right now almost every soda pop for sale in a grocery store is either a Pepsi or Coke product and they even own all of the sub-lables like 7up, Barq's, Canada Dry etc.
- The major complaints customers have of the Beer stores is hours of operation and service when busy. Yet tourist areas all open sundays and extend hours in the summer. It would be nice to be able to get limited products from a local convenience store with their hours. (Maybe micro-breweries only?)

good points - it would be wonderful to have greater access to the products that are made by the many microbreweries

Not sure why the LCBO and The Beer Store don't have better hours here in Simcoe.

I know I have had to drive on a few occasions to Jarvis in order to purchase alcohol after the stores in Simcoe are closed.

Not many people are even aware that you can buy alcohol there I don't believe. For a convenience store, they certainly do have a half decent selection.

We have wine stores in grocery stores so I guess there is no really good reason that we couldn't have beer there too, is there?

When I'm in New York State always get my beer at a grocery store. I am 56 ,but have to show ID. They check everyone buying beer. They have a section for the micro brew beer.
As for the distribution, that's a good question.
Brewers retail is owned by 3 big breweries-would they be given carte-blanche rights to distribute?
In the States there are independent beverage distributors that deliver soda and beer.
Right now I think over $3.00 per case of beer is collected by Brewers Retail and funneled back to the owners. They would put up a big fight over losing distribution rights. This present format gives them a lot of control over the beer from other breweries and the microbrews sold at the BR.
In New York liquor is sold in separate stores-still privately held though.

When I'm in New York State always get my beer at a grocery store. I am 56 ,but have to show ID. They check everyone buying beer. They have a section for the micro brew beer.
As for the distribution, that's a good question.
Brewers retail is owned by 3 big breweries-would they be given carte-blanche rights to distribute?
In the States there are independent beverage distributors that deliver soda and beer.
Right now I think over $3.00 per case of beer is collected by Brewers Retail and funneled back to the owners. They would put up a big fight over losing distribution rights. This present format gives them a lot of control over the beer from other breweries and the microbrews sold at the BR.
In New York liquor is sold in separate stores-still privately held though.

"The big question is can it be controlled like it is in the Beer Store?"

As a former TBS employee/driver I can say that the control will not be as as it is when it is sold at a single distrobuter. One of the biggest reasons that might promote this sort of behavior is at a grocery/convenience store (the latter more so) doesn't sell they don't get the return, whereas it isn't as drastic a loss (if any) if TBS doesn't make sale, so the pressure isn't there to sell. As far as places like TP and scotland go, they are not the same as as the forementioned. They are treated as the other mixed gover't TBS/Liquor store locations, not like a corner store or grocer.


"I imagine then that beer would be distributed the same way that cigarettes or any other grocery item is delivered - the store would receive them from whatever wholesale/distributor that they normally deal with for these items. Actually, this could probably prove to be cheaper for the Big 3 than the current delivery system, given that they could operate straight out of their plants or from a central depot"

Untrue, you can almost guarentee the price of beer go up, and I don't mean a few cents either, I mean by several dollars/case. The reasoning is this...
..More crews and trucks, there isn't enough time in the day to work the current system nevermind adding a lot more stops
..More operation costs and leasing fees to the fleet
..The nature of the product makes them totally unique of any other "wholesaler" (bottles and kegs are returned for refill) wich means a longer stop at each call
..You will be guarenteed to loose the selection you get from TBS, they have the beer market tapped and can afford to bring in almost any flavour of beer that
is out there, grocer/corner store?, only best selling brands

"We have wine stores in grocery stores so I guess there is no really good reason that we couldn't have beer there too, is there?"

The sheer volume in wich beer moves cannot be contained in gorcery/corner stores, even the smallest TBS has more coldand warm storage any large grocery store can make accomadations for (Simcoe TBS for example has more storage room than any variety store's building size in norfolk/brant) and you have to be able to keep room for empty returns.