Taser

Just wondering something...if you are wearing metal...such as in a neck chain or belt buckle or braces on your teeth or steel-toed boots, does a taser jolt affect you more harshly? Would the voltage concentrate and travel more directly to the metal?

Also, if this guy had injured himself by cutting and then bleeding profusely from that injury, his body may have been in shock from that injury and then to give someone a jolt, well, that would do it.

As well, if someone is on some kind of "high" from stimulants/pills and their hearts are already racing, and agitated and in some kind of rage, and they are upset to see police approaching and then are tasered, one's heart simply could not help but stop. As I see it....

observer wrote:

One has to wonder, always, whether the depletion of experienced officers in the OPP doesn't play some role in this increased confrontational occurrences we see here in Norfolk. Is there any truth to the perception that we are perhaps the training ground for young, gung-ho OPP recruits?

I find most of the new recruits to be quite useless. If you want anything done, you actually have to have an experienced officer attend. Too many times you watch a crime being committed and the young officer sees it and just walks away in order to avoid the confrontation.

My casual observations would lead me to agree with you.

Watchman wrote:

observer wrote:

One has to wonder, always, whether the depletion of experienced officers in the OPP doesn't play some role in this increased confrontational occurrences we see here in Norfolk. Is there any truth to the perception that we are perhaps the training ground for young, gung-ho OPP recruits?

I find most of the new recruits to be quite useless. If you want anything done, you actually have to have an experienced officer attend. Too many times you watch a crime being committed and the young officer sees it and just walks away in order to avoid the confrontation.

If I heard it right this morning at 6:00 , Brantford radio said that "NO" taser training was done at the at the Elgin County faciltily. Is that not the OPP training school in Alymer?

"That's like saying someone who dies of a heart attack didn't die because of the heart attack because they died 2 hours after they had it."

Well if you want to get technical, someone who dies two hours after a heart attack is not dying from the heart attack but from a cardiac arrhythmia. You are talking to someone who worked CCU for 17 years rye
I think there were many factors that contributed to this man's death. The taser could have been "a" factor.

But rudievalentine, would you say he might have lived without the tasering? Would you say it "contributed" to his death?

I can't say for sure, but it along with his lengthy history of drug abuse, anger managment, etc. , I should have said, it "could" have been a factor. He still may have died from his apparent drug "high" of whatever combination he used.

Hmmm........ how about instead of laying blame at the feet of the police who are trying to do thier jobs, and maybe on the hands at the guy who put himself in a position to be tazered.

The cops need a quick and reliable method of restraint, they have one. I think there are just too many 'bleeding hearts' out there. Every method they use can result in death... if they shoot him, very probable because they shoot for the largest target, they could club the suspect, but due to the proximity of the suspect it's not always favourable, could pepper spray, but as said about if he was drugged up it might not have the desired effect. Also you best be a crack shot to get his eyes when he is swinging all over the place. So the tazer fits the bill... it can hit the large target like a gun and has range but unlike a round fired from a gun, it won't kill you (you can't always account for or work around special circumstances)

So I think maybe some 'armchair critics' should pull out some brass and maybe sign up, get thier shield, and maybe when they find themselves in thie position where they are threatened by a guy with a pipe (or whatever it was) we'll see what they reach for

It's simple... we know what the police carry for restraints... if you don't like them, get down and put your hands behind your head and don't move, how complicated is that???

I have to say I agree. There are consequences of behavior and choices. It sounds like this man had a sad life of addiction that came to a tragic end. We all have a choice.

Personally, I don't mind being called a "bleeding heart" if it means that I have empathy for my fellow human beings no matter how wretched they may be. For purposes of clarifying the complex issues around the taser weapon, I am glad wombat made the original post. When such things happen close to home they should be thoroughly and thoughtfully discussed. And I believe there have been many constructive viewpoints and opinions presented. That is a good thing.

As far as "arm chair critics", I agree, it is easy to criticize. And I totally agree the police have a very difficult job to do.
We all have varying degrees of experience in this area. There are some that might currently be or have been police officers. Others haven't been out of Norfolk and have a very narrow world view but still have an opinion about the place they live in and what happens here. Others have other areas of life experience or trainng and speak from that perspective. All are worthy of consideration and reflection, I believe......as we shed light on the truth....

aguyinbrantford wrote:

Hmmm........ how about instead of laying blame at the feet of the police who are trying to do thier jobs, and maybe on the hands at the guy who put himself in a position to be tazered.

The cops need a quick and reliable method of restraint, they have one. I think there are just too many 'bleeding hearts' out there. Every method they use can result in death... if they shoot him, very probable because they shoot for the largest target, they could club the suspect, but due to the proximity of the suspect it's not always favourable, could pepper spray, but as said about if he was drugged up it might not have the desired effect. Also you best be a crack shot to get his eyes when he is swinging all over the place. So the tazer fits the bill... it can hit the large target like a gun and has range but unlike a round fired from a gun, it won't kill you (you can't always account for or work around special circumstances)

So I think maybe some 'armchair critics' should pull out some brass and maybe sign up, get thier shield, and maybe when they find themselves in thie position where they are threatened by a guy with a pipe (or whatever it was) we'll see what they reach for

It's simple... we know what the police carry for restraints... if you don't like them, get down and put your hands behind your head and don't move, how complicated is that???

This is per CD 98.9 today:

A Brantford man has been handed numerous charges and given psychiatric treatment after attacking police officers and citizens with a steak knife. Around 8pm yesterday, officers were called to the Murray and Sheridan Street area in Brantford after complaints that the man had swung the knife at neighbours. When they arrived, the man came at the officers with the knife. Officers drew their guns and a taser; the man was eventually shot with the taser and taken into custody with minimal injury. The 30 year-old man now faces various weapons and assault charges.

RCMP should end use of Tasers: Zaccardelli
Last Updated: Wednesday, September 3, 2008 | 6:28 AM ET Comments40Recommend16CBC News
Canada's national police force should end its controversial use of stun guns, former RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli says.

Giuliano Zaccardelli, shown here in an interview with CBC News, has called for an end to the use of stun guns by RCMP officers. (CBC)
Zaccardelli said he supported the use of stun guns, commonly known as Tasers, during his seven-year reign as commissioner because they were simply another tool for policing.

But given the recent controversy surrounding police force's use of Tasers in Canada, the former commissioner has reconsidered his position, he said.
"And you know, after all that I've thought about it, I've come more and more to the conclusion that I'm not sure that having Tasers is worth the negative impact that it has on police forces in terms of public perception," he told the CBC's Peter Mansbridge.

"I think we should stop using it."

In interview that will air on The National Wednesday at 9 p.m. ET, Zaccardelli says the problem with the use of Tasers extends beyond public perception to a matter of safety and misuse.

"I'm very concerned between the perception and, in cases unfortunately where we've had misuse, that we have to seriously consider maybe taking away that," said Zaccardelli, who is now a senior officer at Interpol in France.




http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/09/02/zaccardelli-tasers.html

Taser International is the name of the company in Arizona that manufactures the "conducted energy weapon".
That's exactly what it is...a conducted energy weapon. Always has been.

In a high stress situation it's highly unlikely, unreasonable and very dangerous for any officer to draw his or her firearm and aim for a limb. Nor is it tactically sound.

Police are trained to use their firearms to stop a threat of serious bodily harm or death, to themselves or another person.
They are trained to shoot for centre mass "ONLY" to incapacitate the threat. Not to kill.

There are numerous examples/situations where tasers have been used which saved lives. But these situations never make the press.
Remember, the media only prints what sells newspapers or shows what makes people watch their news.

An example is the headline "The majority of people tasered by police are unarmed". NO KIDDING! If they were armed, they would be shot.

Yes, a taser delivers 50,000 volts of electricity. You can get that sliding your feet along the floor and touching a doorknob. Volts don't kill. Amps kill and the taser delivers .026 amps when deployed. About a quarter of an amp.
If someone was going to die from a taser it would be during its cycle, not a half an hour or more later.

The Van de Graaff generator at the Ontario Science Centre delivers a heck of a lot more volts than a taser to make a person hair stand up. They seem fine in all the pictures I've seen. (by the way, I've heard it delivers something like 2 million volts but I haven't confirmed that. If someone knows that would be appreciated)

The taser is a "less lethal weapon".

People die from a variety of medical problems, some self-induced, some congenital. A series of unfortunate events all rolled into one.

In my respectful opinion (and condolences to family members) that guy was already dead before the police go to him. He just hadn't fallen down yet.

More significant information regarding tasers and their use......

RCMP didn't study Taser use enough: Report

Hard-hitting review says force relied too heavily on manufacturer's input

Sep 12, 2008 04:30 AM
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Tonda MacCharles
Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA–The RCMP did not do "due diligence" when it approved the Taser stun gun for use as a less-than-lethal weapon by its officers, a hard-hitting independent review concludes.

The report was ordered by RCMP Commissioner Bill Elliott after the uproar following the death last October of a Polish immigrant shot with a Taser by RCMP at the Vancouver airport.

Submitted in June to Elliott but not made public, the review says the RCMP relied too much on the advice of the Taser's American manufacturer in developing its policies and training, did not consult widely enough with medical and mental health experts about its impact on people, and did not treat the weapon as a "prohibited firearm" – its proper legal classification.

Across Canada, 170 police agencies use stun guns and 22 people have died after being hit by stun guns, although the deaths have not been linked directly to their use.

The report, obtained yesterday by the Star under Access to Information, slams the use of the term "excited delirium" by police officers to describe combative, resistant suspects, saying it is an excuse to justify firing the 50,000-volt charge.

"Excited delirium" is not a recognized medical diagnosis, but a term sometimes used by emergency room doctors or coroners, the report says. However, its use by police amounts to "folk knowledge" and it should be eliminated from the RCMP's operational manual unless formally approved after consultation with a mental-health policy advisory body, said the review.
The report urges the federal government to set national standards for Taser use by all police forces in Canada, under its power in the Criminal Code to regulate firearms.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/497934

Mentally ill mom stunned with Taser to save child: Vancouver police

Last Updated: Friday, September 26, 2008 | 11:58 AM ET Comments86Recommend64CBC News
A Taser uses an electronic shock to incapacitate a person. (Associated Press)A police officer used a Taser on a mentally disturbed teenaged mother to save the life of her critically ill infant, the Vancouver police say.

The incident happened on Monday at about noon when officers and social workers went to the 18-year-old father's home searching for the 16-year-old mother and child, said police in a statement issued late Thursday night.

The mother and child had recently been reported missing from a foster home and social workers from the Ministry for Children and Family Development were concerned for the infant's health because the child was born with a life-threatening medical condition that required immediate attention, police said.

Police found the mother and child at the home and negotiated with the mother for an extended period without result


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/09/26/bc-mohter-tasered-vancouver.html