Taser

So the Norfolk OPP seem to have Tasered a man to death according to the CBC.

"An Ontario man died Monday after a Taser incident involving Ontario Provincial Police, the force said in a media release. The incident happened mid-morning in Norfolk County, about 130 km southwest of Toronto."

So why hasn't the local detachment reported this to the local media. And are we surprised - both that it happened and that they haven't reported it to the media.

Interesting that there is nothing on the OPP site yet? It's on the National Post site though too. I'm sure we may never know the whole story, but I know the police do not have an easy job.

In my opinion, the taser has proven over and over to be lethal....surely one man
could (and should) be physically subdued without it....

Some information posted on line about midnight regarding this topic.

A man was tasered while "acting erratically" on Fisher's Glen Road about 10:30AM. Seems he got into difficulty when they were processing him at the OPP station and died at Norfolk General. There are no names in the Hamilton Spectator.

I won't express an opinion until I know more. But what I have read and heard about taser use for the last year has been very disturbing. This is a major issue for policing and a human rights issue as well.

This guy was only 36 yrs old, and I wonder why there is a pool of blood where they took him down on the road which is marked off now by the SIU. I hope that whatever happened the truth comes out. It also said that an ambulance examined this man before he was taken to Simcoe to the detachment. Why was an ambulance called in the first place or is that standard procedure when you use a taser?

This was on Canoe this morning .........

Man dies in provincial police custody after Taser used during arrest
By THE CANADIAN PRESS

SIMCOE, Ont. - Ontario's Special Investigations Unit (SIU) is probing death of a 36-year-old man who collapsed and died after being Tasered in a confrontation with provincial police officers.

Officers responding to a call about an unwanted man causing a disturbance in southwestern Ontario's Norfolk County on Monday morning were confronted by "a combative male party," police said.

A Taser was used to subdue the man and he was taken into custody and transported to the Simcoe, Ont., provincial police station, the SIU said in a release Monday night.

Upon arrival at the detachment, police said the man collapsed and officers administered first aid until the ambulance arrived.

The man died at Norfolk General Hospital.

Because the man died in police custody, the SIU, a civilian agency that investigates circumstances involving police and civilians, which have resulted in serious injury, sexual assault or death, was called in.

Monday's incident occurred just days after the RCMP announced it would restrict Taser firings.

Officers will have clearer direction on how and when the powerful weapons should be wielded "as quickly as possible," the Mounties said last Wednesday following renewed calls for action by the RCMP complaints commission.

A recent report on RCMP Taser use revealed that nearly a third of the people hit with Tasers needed medical treatment after.

The 50,000-volt weapons can be shot from a distance of several metres and cycled repeatedly once steel probes puncture a suspect's skin or clothing.

The guns can also be fired over and over in up-close stun mode - a pain likened to leaning on a hot stove - sometimes blistering the skin.

Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski died last October after he was repeatedly zapped with an RCMP Taser and subdued by officers at Vancouver International Airport.

Prior to Monday's incident, at least 20 people in Canada were known to have died after they were Tasered.

Arizona-based manufacturer Taser International points out that the weapons have never been directly blamed for a death, though they have been cited as contributing factors.

Amnesty International Canada has repeatedly called for a temporary moratorium pending an independent, in-depth study of potential risks.

I see the OPP have taken to calling tasers..... a conducted energy weapon.

Call it what it is..a taser. Forget the "baffle gab' and weasel words.

Just how where "combative and erratically acting" persons handled BEFORE tasers? You'd think that after the RCMP action that the OPP would have maybe questioned the use of them too. I think some of the young "pups" that we have here on the force are just lazy maybe they think its like a video game. One way I can think of to make law enforcement think about using tasers is to have "EVERY" officer zapped with one, then they might think about using it on someone else. Sounds hard I know and someone is going to say I'm anti- police but what I am is anti needless death!

Tasers take the suspect down easily without having to involve the cops physically. I think the cops worry if they have to get hand to hand with the suspect that he will get a black eye or a bloody nose and cry police brutality. Taser just takes them down plain and simple.

They used to use WORDS, first of all..to talk someone down. And they used their defensive and martial arts training to subdue a person physically. And they used their manpower/force to place someone in restraints.

Perhaps now that physical height and weight requirements are no longer part of the employment picture (used to have to be 5 foot 9 and a certain weight in the 60's and 70's).. they HAVE to rely on tasers to make up for the fact many police officers seem to be smaller and shorter and less able to overpower a person who is out of control. OR perhaps they need to lower the voltage on those things. Just a jolt would give them the upper hand.

The puddle on the road was probably not blood but body fluids. I am sure you lose all bowel and bladder control when you get hit!

It is disturbing to think that at some point, tasers might enter the SCHOOL system! To subdue an unruly child! Not too far beyond our current viewfinder!

Without knowing the circumstances, we can't know if the taser use was justified or not.

I have witnessed the cops take down many individuals without the use of a taser. I have also seen two situations where a taser was deployed. In both cases, it was warranted. The people that were resisting were extremely violent and very difficult to subdue. Usually they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

There does always seem to be something wrong with the person previously to being hit with a taser though. Virtually every case of taser death has been attributed to something other than the taser. Let's face it, when you are tasering someone, they aren't the type of people that normally take care of themselves and are healthy individuals.

As for the statement of the police officers getting smaller and smaller...I have to agree. Seriously, what is a 5"3" 100lb soaking wet officer going to do in a physical confrontation? It is amazing how they seem to keep getting smaller and smaller every year.

I seem to remember a time when you needed to be at least 6'0" in order to be an OPP officer. What happened to the standards?

Probably not enough people signing up that size. They had to reduce the requirements in order to get enough recruits. I always thought size did not matter? Can't a smaller person subdue a larger one with the right training?

Your right about the size. With proper training size doesn't matter. Atleast that's what they tell all the women that take self defence classes. I'm sure that police officers would probably get better self defence than anyone or atleast they should.

Yes.... a small person CAN subdue a large person...with the right training ...in the use of tasers, it seems!

I recall a small female police officer in Hamilton following and approaching a drug-crazed, jealous, angry impaired man 6 foot plus who was breaking the windows and trying to kick in the door of his ex-partner's home and trying to gain entry. She approached before her back-up arrived. And he beat the living daylights out of her. And there was a court case about this a while back.

I am not saying that there are not some small officers that can take care of themselves thanks to some lengthy history in the martial arts.

I know that there is a female officer on the force that is a nationally ranked Judo champion who competed in the Olympics. While many may laugh at her because of her size, I wouldn't want to be one of the people that she takes down.

However, that is the exception to the rule, most of the recruits are not heavily trained in martial arts. They take a few weeks training in takedowns at the police college and then are thrown out onto the streets. Your takedown training is not going to help you when you run into a 250 lb guy that benches 400 lbs. You know that officer that only weighs 125-150 lbs is going to be sent flying on any encounter.

There are some big officers are our local force, but there are way too many undersized ones as well. I honestly wonder how safe some of the larger officers feel when they are backed up by a guy half their size?

The Hamilton TV station reported at noon that the deceased guy's Father said that his Son had been known to use drugs in the past. They reported that he lost his job at a flower business within the last few days. They also gave the last name as being either Morrell or Murrell. According to the TV news, the Police were called because he was swinging a large metal object at passing cars. I thought they said it was a railing from a porch but that may not be official -- that could've come from a citizen that talked to the reporter.

Taser deaths in Canada --

2008
A man died Monday in Norfolk County, about 130 kilometres southwest of Toronto, after being Tasered by Ontario Provincial Police.

2007
Robert Knipstrom, 36, of Chilliwack British Columbia, was killed after struggling with police in November. Police used pepper spray, the taser and a baton to subdue Knipstrom.
Howard Hyde, 45, of Dartmouth Nova Scotia, died about 30 hours after being tasered by police in November. A paranoid schizophrenic who had stopped taken his medication, he'd been arrested for assaulting his girlfriend.
Robert Dziekanski, 40, in the Vancouver Airport in October.
Quilem Registre, 39, in Montreal after being stopped by police on suspicion of drunk driving, also in October.

2006
Jason Dean, 28 in Red Deer while running from police in August.

2005
Alesandro Fiacco, 33 in Edmonton, arrested while wandering into traffic in December.
James Foldi, 39, of Beamsville, Ont., while being arrested for breaking and entering in July.
Paul Sheldon Saulnier, 42, while being restrained by police in Digby N.S. in July.
Gurmeet Sandhu, 41, of Surrey B.C., while being restrained during a domestic dispute in June.
Kevin Geldart, 34, in Moncton, N.B., in May during an altercation with police in a bar.

2004
Samuel Truscott, 43, of Kingston, Ont., was tasered by police during arrest. His death was ruled a drug overdose.
Jerry Knight, 29, a semi-pro boxer was tasered by police at a Mississauga motel in July after complaints he had become violent.
Robert Bagnell, 54, while in custody of the Vancouver police in June. He had cocaine in his system.
Peter Lamonday, 33, while being restrained by police in London, Ont. in May.
Roman Andreichikov, 25, high on cocaine and being restrained by Vancouver police also in May.
Perry Ronald, 28, while being restrained by Edmonton police after jumping from a window in March.

2003
Clark Whitehouse, 34, tried to flee the Whitehorse RCMP after being stopped in traffic in September.
Clayton Alvin Willey, 33, of Prince George was also high on cocaine when tasered by police while trespassing in July.
Terry Hanna, 51, was tasered by Burnaby RCMP in April during a break and enter. Cocaine was also involved.

http://www.canada.com/ch/chchnews/story.html?id=ca6935d5-c500-4da3-a646-1da968485aa1

Taser victim had a drug problem: father
June 24, 2008
THE CANADIAN PRESS

SIMCOE, Ont. — An Ontario man who died in police custody after being shocked by police with a Taser gun had a drug problem and recently lost his job, his father said Tuesday.

Jeffrey Marreel, 36, died after Ontario Provincial Police responded to a disturbance in the town of Norfolk, Ont., near Simcoe on Monday.

The man had a history of drug problems and lost his job at a flower shop two weeks ago, his father Noel Marreel said in an interview.

Marreel, who also broke up with his girlfriend in the last month, was likely on drugs when he was approached by police at about 10:30 a.m. Monday, his father said.

“I suspect he was (using drugs),” said Marreel. “He was on a down cycle.”
Police say Marreel was transported to the Norfolk County provincial police station after being hit with the stun gun, where he collapsed.

Officers performed first aid on Marreel until paramedics arrived.

He was pronounced dead in hospital about two hours after the initial incident.

Jeffrey Marreel had no fixed address and drifted between the homes of friends and family, his father said.

In Toronto, Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services Rick Bartolucci said the province will not be calling for a moratorium on Taser use in the wake the incident.

“Ontario has a very, very measured approach to the use of Tasers,” said Bartolucci, who added a provincial report on the use of the stun guns is scheduled to be released in December.

Last week, the RCMP announced it would restrict Taser firings following a report into what critics call “usage creep.”

The officers in the federal police force will have a clearer direction on how and when a Taser should be used, chairman Paul Kennedy said at the time.

He also said all people stunned using Tasers should receive medical attention, a point that is “particularly relevant for at-risk populations, such as people with mental-health issues, substance-abuse problems, health and homelessness challenges.”

Some 21 people have died in Canada after being stuck with Tasers.

Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski died in October after being repeatedly zapped by RCMP officers at Vancouver International Airport. A video of his final moments added to the debate about the use of Tasers.

Amnesty International Canada has repeatedly called for a temporary moratorium on the stun guns, pending an independent study of its possible risks.

Because Marreel died in police custody, Ontario’s Special Investigation Unit is probing the incident.
An autopsy was scheduled to be performed in Hamilton on Tuesday.

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/391894

I guess now that the facts have come out, it clearly looks like a taser was justified in this case.

A large drugged up individual swinging a large metal bar at cars. He probably refused to drop his weapon and came at the police with it I imagine.

Hmm, a gun to take him down or a taser? Which would you use in that situation? I think you can rule out a baton or pepper spray, they would be pretty ineffective against a guy with a larger weapon coming at you.

How about a Hand Held Fixed Net Projector Capture Tool?
http://www.tejas.co.nz/status/

BTW...how many "passing cars..." can there be in the sticks of Norfolk? Just wondering?

Watchman wrote:

I guess now that the facts have come out, it clearly looks like a taser was justified in this case.

A large drugged up individual swinging a large metal bar at cars. He probably refused to drop his weapon and came at the police with it I imagine.

Hmm, a gun to take him down or a taser? Which would you use in that situation? I think you can rule out a baton or pepper spray, they would be pretty ineffective against a guy with a larger weapon coming at you.

Quote :

BTW...how many "passing cars..." can there be in the sticks of Norfolk? Just wondering?

yeah no kidding.. Fisher's Glen.. lol how many cars go by there in a day.. like 5? I'm still looking for the part of the article that says he was a large man???

Justice wrote:

Quote :

BTW...how many "passing cars..." can there be in the sticks of Norfolk? Just wondering?

I'm still looking for the part of the article that says he was a large man???

You'll be looking all night and still won't find it. It's not there. I've seen or heard no mention of his size in the media. Like I said earlier, the Hamilton TV station said that he was swinging a large metal object. I'm positive they said it was a railing from a porch, although I find that hard to picture. There was also mention on TV of him breaking one of those large roadside telephone boxes.

The first three stories on the Hamilton TV news at noon today were from Norfolk. The Taser death, the attempted murder/suicide in Turkey Point and the young girl getting killed on the motorcycle.

Justice wrote:

Quote :

BTW...how many "passing cars..." can there be in the sticks of Norfolk? Just wondering?

yeah no kidding.. Fisher's Glen.. lol how many cars go by there in a day.. like 5? I'm still looking for the part of the article that says he was a large man???

Ok, perhaps he was only 4' 6", guess you got me there, lol.

However, judging by the descriptions given of the damage he was causing and the size of the weapon that he was using, I didn't picture it being a midget swinging the weapon.