smoking legislation

Spidubic wrote:

SkullyCapone wrote:

Roll down the window, its not a big deal and its sucked right out the window even with the slighest crack, no one in the car is getting direct smoke. Its alright to inhale nanicoke pollution but not okay for kids to inhale minute tracdes of second hand smoke? What a great message!

30 below, middle of a blizzard. Yeah, open the window rather than not smoke. Freeze the kids. What a great message!

30 below, window cracked just slightly, heat cranked up, smoke sailing right through that crack, everyday warm and healthy, no smoke in the car.

Smokers are dumb people and im perfect.. great message!

SkullyCapone wrote:

Spidubic wrote:

SkullyCapone wrote:

Roll down the window, its not a big deal and its sucked right out the window even with the slighest crack, no one in the car is getting direct smoke. Its alright to inhale nanicoke pollution but not okay for kids to inhale minute tracdes of second hand smoke? What a great message!

30 below, middle of a blizzard. Yeah, open the window rather than not smoke. Freeze the kids. What a great message!

30 below, window cracked just slightly, heat cranked up, smoke sailing right through that crack, everyday warm and healthy, no smoke in the car.

Smokers are dumb people and im perfect.. great message!

Window cracked, vents blowing warm air and smoke right past the crack into the backseat with the kids.

You keep coming up with ways of validating your addiction. And validating smoking around people and kids. Maybe not dumb but persistant and bullheaded. You keep saying how many other things in the world are bad for us which it totally right. But rather than stop the one thing close to you that can be stopped the easiest you suggest we close Nanticoke and all coal fired plants. Oh, and stop driving cars. Basically change something the entire planet does every single day rather than something what, 40% of the population does. Start with that and work up.

Spidubic wrote:

SkullyCapone wrote:

Spidubic wrote:

SkullyCapone wrote:

Roll down the window, its not a big deal and its sucked right out the window even with the slighest crack, no one in the car is getting direct smoke. Its alright to inhale nanicoke pollution but not okay for kids to inhale minute tracdes of second hand smoke? What a great message!

30 below, middle of a blizzard. Yeah, open the window rather than not smoke. Freeze the kids. What a great message!

30 below, window cracked just slightly, heat cranked up, smoke sailing right through that crack, everyday warm and healthy, no smoke in the car.

Smokers are dumb people and im perfect.. great message!

Window cracked, vents blowing warm air and smoke right past the crack into the backseat with the kids.

You keep coming up with ways of validating your addiction. And validating smoking around people and kids. Maybe not dumb but persistant and bullheaded. You keep saying how many other things in the world are bad for us which it totally right. But rather than stop the one thing close to you that can be stopped the easiest you suggest we close Nanticoke and all coal fired plants. Oh, and stop driving cars. Basically change something the entire planet does every single day rather than something what, 40% of the population does. Start with that and work up.

Your a hyprocrite and you try to validate all the bad things you do, so why cant I?

I think we been through this discussion many times, because the whole world does bad things its okay, but because a small percentage does something not healthy by their choice its not okay.

You to have a choice, live like the amish, stop buying foods and clothes and products from other countries which use sweat shops and 6 years olds to make their goods for 2 cents a month, stop using so much hydro, do you really need that air condition and television set and cell phone? But you dont, you dont give a rats butt, you only worry about what i do and put in my body.

Skully, kids aren't second hand smoking by choice....that's what this law's all about, get yer head outta your ass for a second and think about the children!

SkullyCapone wrote:

Your a hyprocrite and you try to validate all the bad things you do, so why cant I?

I think we been through this discussion many times, because the whole world does bad things its okay, but because a small percentage does something not healthy by their choice its not okay.

You to have a choice, live like the amish, stop buying foods and clothes and products from other countries which use sweat shops and 6 years olds to make their goods for 2 cents a month, stop using so much hydro, do you really need that air condition and television set and cell phone? But you dont, you dont give a rats butt, you only worry about what i do and put in my body.

Lets see Skully.
I don't use AC.
I don't carry a cell phone.
I use the TV less and less every day.
I buy from the local corner stands.
I try to buy no sweatshop clothes but that us kinda hard because the label doesn't help to identify them easily.
I have chosen to do my part to lessen the bad things in the world. What are you doing Skully? Can you say the same?


I dont care what you do to your body Skully. Problem is it is not just you but anyone near you to whom you do something too. I am concerned that you basically condone doing anything and everything bad with a cigarette. You validate smoking in a car with kids by saying cracking a window solves the problem. You say let the smokers gather at the doors to Wal-Mart because the smoke is going out into the fresh air. But if I can smell it then I have to be inhaling something from it right?

You know if you took the $60 a carton or whatever they cost now and put it ina jar then I bet in no time you could have solar panels on your roof and a wind turbine in the back yard. You would be off the grid helping to stop bad Nanticoke from polluting along with no more pollution from the cigarettes.

rye wrote:

Skully, kids aren't second hand smoking by choice....that's what this law's all about, get yer head outta your ass for a second and think about the children!

You put kids at risk every single day more than any cigarette smoker ever could, you think about the children and get your hyprocritical head out yourrrr ass

The very air you and kids breath is not healthy, the things you eat and the things parents feed their kids every day are not healthy, the kids living in this area near the # 1 pollution machine in all of Canada is not healthy, none of these kids do any of this by choice and I could go on and make a list of a million things we as people do to ourselfs and our kids that are not healthy and kids do not by choice.

Doesnt matter though, because so long as you do it, its fine. I put kids at risk no more than you or anyone on this planet.

Its really time you face the music and come out from that rock you live under, second hand smoke is no more a killer than any other other bad thing we as people do on a daily basis.




Toronto just like every other major city in the world, where kids have no choice, when will you and all of us really get our heads out our assess and stop blaming a few smokers on the sidewalk or driving in a car with the window down?



Did this kid and all the other kids of the world have a choice when all their parents take them to the big M? And they aint the only culprit, 95% of the food parents feed their kids can have long term effects which is why you see such a large portion of the worlds population obese. They never had a choice and they never had a chance.



Do our kids around here have a choice to live near this toxic beast?



Do kids have a choice while they watch their parents start up that smoke machine everyday along with the trillions of others around the world? Nope.



Do you buy oversea products, oversea produce, do you oversea products for your kids, clothing, toys, all of it made by slave kids who are wipped and starved, raped and beaten repeatedly? Do your kids have a choice in what you buy them and who is being killed and beaten for them to have it?

I could on and post thousands of pictures on basically every single thing we as people do that can harm a child one way or another, things that you or I or anyone can really live without if it came right down to it, ask the amish. But we dont give it up because its either an addiction, a so called necessity like energy and all the things that come with it, like vehicles and favourite foods we just cant go without because it tastes oh so damn goooddddd.

Until you stop the things you do that contributes to things that harm children and yourself you have absolutely no right to tell me what I can and cant do. Correction you have a right to tell me because its a free country, I just wont give a crap and I will point out to you the things you and everyone else does to harm yourself and your kids.

Moving along now, the record is broken

What about "flatulence?" Are there harmful chemicals in those emissions as well? Will that be next?

No flatulating in cars with your kids...or perhaps even in your own home! The flatulence police will be sniffing around! Enough already!

wow skully you really don't get it. Smoke is smoke, and kids have enough problems in the world they are going to inherit without breathing in added smoke. I was walking down the street today behind someone smoking and it bothered me so I slowed down. Should I have to do this? NO but I did so I didn't have to take in his smoke. Then I got to the mall and walked past a mall employee enjoying a cigarette just outside the door. Yes I smelled it but said nothing, as I would like to have. Perhaps we should boycott the Town Center until management fixes the problem. And what does Nanticoke have to do with this topic anyway?

redrider wrote:

wow skully you really don't get it. Smoke is smoke, and kids have enough problems in the world they are going to inherit without breathing in added smoke. I was walking down the street today behind someone smoking and it bothered me so I slowed down. Should I have to do this? NO but I did so I didn't have to take in his smoke. Then I got to the mall and walked past a mall employee enjoying a cigarette just outside the door. Yes I smelled it but said nothing, as I would like to have. Perhaps we should boycott the Town Center until management fixes the problem. And what does Nanticoke have to do with this topic anyway?

me and my kid was riding our bikes behind your car today and the exhaust fumes were going straight into our faces, but i didnt say nothing, but should I have to do this? Then you turned off and another car and then another car and then another car and another car and another car one after the other all drove by me and my kid blowing their exhaust fumes in our faces.

WHAT the hell is wrong with you people, get a damn horse, your killin my damn kids, your polluting the air I breath.


What does nanicoke have to do with this? You say smoke bothers you, you think its harming you when you bounce up on a smoker once in a blue moon, but are you not sucking in this some how or another every day?

Skully riding right behind a vehicle with your kid is not very responsible. Perhaps I should worry more about your kids safety on the road with you than any form of air pollution.

cking wrote:

What about "flatulence?" Are there harmful chemicals in those emissions as well? Will that be next?

No flatulating in cars with your kids...or perhaps even in your own home! The flatulence police will be sniffing around! Enough already!

Now you're just giving them ideas..

"Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, which is the most dangerous element of air pollution for health. Levels indoors can far exceed those outdoors.

A turbo diesel 2 litre engine was started and left idling for 30 minutes in the garage, with the doors closed, after which the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fuelled with low sulphur fuel.

Three filter cigarettes were then lit up sequentially, and left smouldering for a further 30 minutes. The nicotine and tar content of each cigarette was 1 mg and 11.2 mg, respectively.

A portable analyser took readings every two minutes during the experiments.

Combined particulate levels in the first hour after the engine had been started measured 88 ug/m3. Those recorded in the first hour after the cigarettes had been lit measured 830 ug/m3: 10 times greater.

The diesel engine exhaust doubled the particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak; the environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15 times those measured outdoors."

Technically Skully your cigarette smoke is far worse than car exhaust.

Just wanted to clarify a few things about Naticoke GS.

It is a large producer of CO2 simply because it's the BIGGEST coal plant in the world.

More coal burned = more CO2.
It is one of the most efficient and clean plants in North America.(Recent Upgrades) A lot of plants in the US don't have precipitators or scrubbers. You can see a brownish stream coming out of their stacks.
In the US they burn, in smaller less efficient plants , more than 10 times the coal we burn in Canada, so they produce at least 10X the CO2 we do here.
That YELLOW stripe in the sky comes from the Ohio Valley actually. Lot's of dirty coal plants there.

If you look at the CO2 emissions world wide Canada as a whole is at I think 3% or so, even with Nanticoke, the US is far higher as is Europe. China is starting up coal plants daily-without any pollution controls.
I can find the numbers again and post them.
I don't work for OPG.


As for vehicles-they are far cleaner than they were just a few years ago-especially the new Diesels. With gas prices going to $2.00 a litre pollution fron vehicles will become less of a problem.

Ok here are some numbers to put Nanticoke into perspective.

US CO2 approx. 2.8 Billion tons/yr
China 2.7 Billion tons/yr and rising fast.
Canada approx. 144,000,000 tons/yr
Nanticoke approx 17,000,000 tons/yr-depends on how much it is run.
There are 11 US plants that produce more CO2 than Nanticoke.

Dirty/Clean refers to amount of CO2 per KWH. Here Nanticoke is cleaner than most US, South American, Chinese, Indian,Australian plants. There are some cleaner, but they are a lot newer.
Remember Nanticoke is closing soon too.

"Dirty/Clean refers to amount of CO2 per KWH"

For people with breathing problems, it 's not the carbon dioxide emissions..it's the sulphur dioxide...the yellowish streak in the sky. Asthmatics and children are very susceptible to sulphur dioxide. Not good for you.

And yes, "clean" means they have scrubbers in place... but it doesn't really mean "clean."

It's a little like someone who has a very dirty house with dogs and cats and kids and dishes in the sink and scum on the bathtub...BUT, they DO have some cleaning materials...a mop and pail and a vacuum and some Comet and Pledge and scrubbers. BUT it doesn't mean their house is clean. Their house could be filthy but they DO have the scrubbers.

However, this discussion is quite pointless because China is beating us all...with thousands of coal-burning facilities, no controls and the circulation of air around the globe brings THEIR stink and pollution HERE.
Anyone want to approach China on this issue? How far will you get??

I think I read that they have some kind of huge fans that will blow the pollution away from the Olympic facilities during competition. Blow it...OUR way!

This is a generalized comment, but I think it's relevant to this post.

Everyone has an opinion on smoking. Personally, I don't condone it but I'm not opposed to it either because without the tobacco industry I would have never learned the value of manual labour and nowhere else could a 16 y/o make $95 for 6 hours of work (about 3 times the minimum wage at the time). However, I don't view this new smoking law as much an enforceable piece of legislation as it is a precedent setter.

I do not have children, so my first reaction to hearing about fines for people who smoke with children in their car, was to think of: cab drivers, children's friends parents, etc. who might decide to have a cigarette. Even though that person may not see it as a problem for their children, who are they to determine what someone else's child is exposed to?

I'm not naive enough to believe that some parent will not be charged for smoking in their car with their child (there's always some law enforcement official who takes things out of context) but unlike a previous post, I do not believe in the public's ability to act in the best interest of children. How many alcoholics have driven their child to/from a place while not being sober? How many psychologically disturbed parents subject their children to scarring episodes because they don't take their medication regularly? And how many parents physically/sexually abuse their children? (Just as examples) I'm not suggesting this is a huge proportion of the population, but those things do happen. Similarly, smoking in a car with a child (not the best decision, even with the window down) is still likely to occur when a parent should know better.

My Dogs breath smells like cat food.



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Most older stations do not have any SO2 scrubbers-Nanticoke has 2 out of 8 units covered. Old ststions are hard to retrofit. A lot of power companies in the US have the ear of their politicians,as a result it is the power company interests being met, not the public's health.
They are being forced to upgrade to low SO2 burners on existing plants. Gas turbine units are all going low SO2 as well.
The solution is to use less power.
I'm wondering how this heavy pollution in China will affect the atheletes. The pollution is gaseous - so where will their fans get the "clean" air.
If you talk to people who have worked in China , the first thing they mention is the dirt,soot, smell etc. from the smokestacks, everything runs on coal there.
India is on the same track-building lots of coal capacity there too.
A really big issue stateside is mercury in coal, when burned joins the plume coming out of the stack.
Looking at the info Mexico has a very large pollution footprint. Most of their power is from Diesel, with no pollution controls .

Most older stations do not have any SO2 scrubbers-Nanticoke has 2 out of 8 units covered. Old ststions are hard to retrofit. A lot of power companies in the US have the ear of their politicians,as a result it is the power company interests being met, not the public's health.
They are being forced to upgrade to low SO2 burners on existing plants. Gas turbine units are all going low SO2 as well.
The solution is to use less power.
I'm wondering how this heavy pollution in China will affect the atheletes. The pollution is gaseous - so where will their fans get the "clean" air.
If you talk to people who have worked in China , the first thing they mention is the dirt,soot, smell etc. from the smokestacks, everything runs on coal there.
India is on the same track-building lots of coal capacity there too.
A really big issue stateside is mercury in coal, when burned joins the plume coming out of the stack.
Looking at the info Mexico has a very large pollution footprint. Most of their power is from Diesel, with no pollution controls .

Is that a Star Wars character, Justice?...Must ask, cking...

I made an error in my last post.
The new burners are for NOx emissions-another source of the brown stripe.
Scrubbers are for SO2.